Discussion
Summary
In this talk, Phil and Nathan engage in a deep discussion about transforming corporate culture through design thinking and relationship-driven work, particularly within IBM. Phil shares his ongoing journey since 2010 in scaling design practices across a vast, distributed organization, emphasizing organic team-level adoption and executive support for designers. Nathan highlights the centrality of relationships and shared meaning in driving value, asserting that culture and innovation emerge from deliberate, sustained conversations and experiences rather than mere persuasion. Both speakers underscore the importance of listening deeply to individuals across silos and acknowledging the complex risk environment of organizations. The discussion reveals how design must not only speak the language of business but innovate it, balancing youthful openness with experience, and how successful change initiatives require finding allies, framing wins in business terms, and piloting safely to gradually shift mindsets. Practical tactics include ethnography on internal stakeholders, framing successes to evidence new possibilities, and reframing risk to enable experimentation. The speakers reflect on historical shifts that emphasized numbers over relationships and articulate a hopeful, adaptive approach to embedding design as a cultural craft in traditionally rigid business settings.
Key Insights
-
•
Design transformation in large companies like IBM succeeds when designers are embedded within business teams rather than centralized in studios.
-
•
Changing organizational culture is more effective through experiential learning and behavior change than through mere persuasion or theory.
-
•
Relationships are fundamental to innovation and culture, yet difficult to visualize and quantify within organizations.
-
•
Listening deeply and non-judgmentally to individuals at all levels enables building empathy and meaningful connections that foster change.
-
•
Risk-taking is essential for innovation, but organizations must balance it with risk management through dialogue and safe-to-fail experiments.
-
•
Embedding design at scale requires executive support with direct communication channels while enabling organic growth from the team level.
-
•
Meaning and identity in design add value especially when buyers and users differ, requiring research on both to align priorities.
-
•
Youthful openness to learning can be more valuable than years of experience when adopting new cultural approaches to design.
-
•
Framing design efforts in terms of existing business goals and language helps secure allies and advance cultural change.
-
•
Top-down mandates alone often fail to create lasting change; combining grassroots adoption with leadership support is more effective.
Notable Quotes
"It’s really about design doing, not just knowing the theory but acting and behaving differently."
"Without relationship, there is no value. You can’t have culture without relationships either."
"Every team that’s come into the program has self-selected in. They want in and are trying to do the right thing."
"A leader is someone who clearly communicates a vision that other people want to follow."
"The conversation about risk needs to shift to what’s the acceptable amount compared to the value of the opportunity."
"Listening deeply with no judgment allows you to start making profound invitations across silos."
"Most people don’t come to work to make their own life harder or work on a bad product."
"We rejected a studio model because designers should take business direction from the teams they’re embedded in."
"We’re building a program here that lasts through 2025 and 2030, so we can take risks on entry level folks."
"You have to speak the language of business and innovate that language to show what design can do together."
Or choose a question:
More Videos
"Empathy in jazz means the band is in it together—when someone plays a wrong chord, the rest adapt and turn it into an opportunity."
Jim KalbachJazz Improvisation as a Model for Team Collaboration
November 6, 2017
"Inclusion, collaboration, and iteration are the three pillars of how we work with authors to make a book."
Louis RosenfeldCoffee with Lou: Should You Write a (UX) Book?
March 7, 2024
"The difference between director and principal often lies in whether you’re inspired more by leading people or focused on outputs and craft."
Catt Small Micah Bennett Brian Carr Jessica HarlleeWhat's Next for ICs: Exploring Staff and Principal Designer Roles
February 22, 2024
"Typically we get stuck answering the questions we know we can answer but lose the chance to see the big picture."
Marieke McCloskeyUser Science: Product Analytics & User Research
March 11, 2021
"If you can’t see a human in a video, how do you know the entire conversation wasn’t fabricated?"
Llewyn Paine[Demo] Deploying AI doppelgangers to de-identify user research recordings
June 5, 2024
"Matching is very much an art, not a science; there are no hard and fast rules for what counts as a good match."
Joshua NobleCasual Inference
October 6, 2023
"We’re biologically wired to respond to intellectual challenges the same way as physical threats."
Sara LogelYour Colleagues are Your Users Too
March 29, 2023
"Sponsor sessions may require registration by email to prevent Zoom bombings and protect session integrity."
Bria Alexander Louis RosenfeldWelcome
January 8, 2024
"Consistency is so important that sometimes even consistency in failure works if it means I only have to learn the workaround once."
Sam ProulxOnline Shopping: Designing an Accessible Experience
June 7, 2023
Latest Books All books
Dig deeper with the Rosenbot
What strategies motivate cross-functional teams to input their research findings into a centralized repository?
What role should AI play in user research tools, and how do you manage associated risks and accountability?
How does User Interviews use AI to improve participant matching and reduce fraud?